Sex Culture in America Explained
On Episode 3 of “From the Horse’s Mouth”, Shafia Zaloom (Skidmore Class of 1993) joins Austin & Brian to discuss her work as a health educator, sex culture in America, and Sexual Assault Awareness Month.
Austin: Welcome back to episode three of the Horse's Mouth. I'm Austin Brook.
Brian: And I'm Brian Kowalski. Before we get into our guest speaker for today's show, we wanted to take a moment to recognize April as being sexual assault awareness month. We here at SAAC have joined up with the planned parenthood generation chapter to give light to this issue. If you remember our first show Bridget Schwartz came on to talk about what PPGEN does if you haven't listened to check it out now. PPGEN has hung posters around campus with qr codes that lead you to a google doc where you can share your own consent story or read others. They are also working hard to put together a zoom form with trained professionals later this month to hold the discussion around this topic so be on the lookout for that as well.
Austin: Now to our guests for today's show Shafia Zaloom. Shafia is alum of Skidmore and graduated in 1993 and currently lives in San Francisco during her time at Skidmore she majored in English literature, currently, she's a health educator parent, consultant, and author whose work centers around human development community building ethics and social justice. Her work has been highlighted in the New York Times, u.s today, PBS and NPR. Her book titled Sex Teens and Everything In Between along with her other articles can be found on her website which is linked in the description we both really enjoyed this talk so let's get into it
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Austin: welcome Shafia uh we are so excited to have you here today if you could just start by talking a little bit about yourself, your Skidmore experience and what motivated you to become a health educator.
Shafia: Well first, thanks for having me and I am class of 93 so I started to give more in 1989 the end of the 80s,an interesting era for sure and had grown up in California my whole life, had family from the east coast who were on the east coast definitely wanted a different experience and thought that was going to be part of my college education so only applied to east coast schools and went and it was interesting there were a couple of us from California and we were sort of these anomalies right because it was a while ago and not a lot of people were going so far for an education and Skidmore attracted me one because it didn't have a Greek system, two because it had awesome arts and literary studies and those really strong departments and those were the things I was most interested in. Loved also the outdoors and being close to the Adirondacks and so was really excited but definitely you know people be like oh you're from Cali you must surf and all these sort of things like there are a lot of stereotypes around sort of who I was and what I would be about based on the fact I was from California but it was great I had a great experience such a quality educational experience not just in academics but living in the east coast living in the seasons you know I learned what foliage was for the first time I was like what leaves and trees and people like, no, you need to go drive to New Hampshire and check that out. And that really opened my eyes to the world in all kinds of ways I drove across the country to get there you know that's stuff that contributes to your education that school can never teach you which was great by virtue of me being going to Skidmore and while I was there I had access to my professors we had small classes you know office hours, it was so quality in that way it was really personable and I thrived. I had a great social life I lived in is it Penfield yep is that still a dorm yeah soi lived in Penfield and Scribner village and then off-campus by Stewart’s down there is that all still there? I think so. And and it was great I mean my dorm had you know we had fun it was super fun met lots of people from Philly and other parts of New York and DC and New Jersey and I don't know it was great anyway have lots of love for Skidmore and so when you called me I contacted me emailed me I was super excited to be able to support whatever it is that you're up to. Which I think we're going to get to now, so yeah okay and I did psych classes I i was just interested so I took psych, I took Soc classes, at Skidmore that was beautiful about the liberal arts program right like I’ve had a major and a minor so literary studies and and studio art but it allowed me to explore all these other areas which is what led to in many ways my work that I do now. So I did this internship through a social work class that I took where I worked with teen moms in Saratoga and in some ways that's sort of what started taking me towards health education and what I do now. Yeah.
Brian: Awesome so obviously so uh April is sexual assault awareness month we have teamed up with PPGEN at Skidmore the planned parenthood club here and we really wanted to just shed some light on this month so we were just wondering if you could maybe talk a little bit about the significance of it and what it means to you.
Shafia: Yeah I mean sexual assault awareness month is so important I think for all of us right like that this is
sexual violence is an issue that touches all of our lives whether we know it or not because if you ask anybody if they knew someone or were aware of the fact that they knew someone because sometimes we don't. I mean statistically, all of us by the time we get to a certain point in our lives know someone we care about who has been impacted by sexual violence and so it really is an important issue personally I came to this work sort of by default. I always believed in health education and had wanted to get into it. I was initially in an interventive role and wanted to get into prevention and that's when education spoke to me and started to specialize I guess maybe 15 years ago just by default because I was starting a family myself in job sharing and that's what class I needed to teach and I did and really took off with it and had the opportunity to write some curriculum for a documentary film about sexual assault on college campuses and so that got media coverage and you know that sort of snowballs in different ways and I became the consent lady and started a national consulting business that over the years has taken me to lots of different schools and lots of different states to address the issue because it is such a big one on college campuses so I have friends so personally I have close friends who I care about and I love who have been in sexually violent relationships i've witnessed it I certainly saw some of it when I was at Skidmore. People I care about, students I care about, are you know really wanting information about this had their own experiences as well I so I think it's just it's so important also too when it comes to this month I think it's a real opportunity to highlight where we as a society say we are going to dedicate this time and therefore this space and this you know and conversation and dialogue opportunities for that we're going to highlight this during this month. What I think is important though is that we do not see it as only one month but something that we need to be working towards all the time. Um this is an opportunity to highlight it and there are a lot of things we're all working on all the time right so sometimes it's good to carve out these sorts of formal ways by which we recognize something that's of value and importance but I really want to emphasize how important this is to actually be addressing on a regular basis. For sure.
Austin: Yeah I mean what what is America’s sex culture like nowadays whether it's on college campuses or in pop culture?
Shafia: I think I think pop culture in forms and in many ways shapes the ideas of young people who then create the culture on campuses and that's not to say it's only young people there are adults who are making decisions that also create a context in which certain things may or may not happen. So I just want to acknowledge that and put that out there I’m a sex-positive sex educator which means that I believe that sex is not to be stigmatized that it's not inherently bad that it's a normal natural part of our human experience that has the potential to be joyful really enrich and fulfill our lives. I also believe as a sex-positive sex educator that people's choices as long as they're fundamentally physically and emotionally safe with consent for instance that they're to be honored and respected is individual choices that people can make for themselves. Also that everyone has the capacity to engage in relationships in positive and fulfilling ways like I I like to believe that and I hope that we can aspire to a culture in which that is true. um I’m not naive to all the different sort of social identities social issues, inequalities all kinds of things that intersect with that and make that not possible for a lot of people and I like to be optimistic and hopeful it's a both and for me. And so I believe we actually live in a predominantly sex-negative culture in which sex is stigmatized there's a lot of body shaming and there's an over-sexualization and objectification of young people in particular of people's bodies they feel like it's pretty gendered as well although it's pervasive for sure and so and the narrative is and this makes sense we live in a meritocracy we live in a performance based culture and achievement-centered and rewarded culture that the cultural narrative then is one in the same when it comes to sexuality and the truth of that is that it actually I think gets in the way of people's capacity to then engage in authentic connection and healthy communicative relationships because this is one aspect or context in which we don't want to be thinking about it in it with an orientation towards performance and achievement but rather felt experience. And so I think there's a lot we need to address and a counter-narrative to push against that on college campuses then I you know college campuses are places where there's a lot of synergy and those things come together and that young person because they don't get quality sex education elsewhere there are some people who get it,
there are some people doing amazing sex education and work out there but the majority of people your age
don't get a quality sex ed education and they're not being talked in positive ways about it also at home for the most part and a lot of that is because you know I have college age kids like because we never got that ourselves right so it's really hard then to pass that along to someone especially if we've been socialized in a sex negative culture. So it's challenging for sure hookup culture is very real on college campuses and it permeates all of them I have not been on a college campus or spoken to college students where hookup culture is not alive. Lisa Wade wrote a really amazing book about it called hookup culture but the people who are actually hooking up is separate from that so the numbers and statistics of people who actually hook up is different from how pervasive hookup culture is. The numbers are a lot smaller a lot of people overestimate how many people are hooking up and so for instance the average college senior will graduate having only hooked up over their four years eight times and you know statistically and half of those times are actually with the same person so that's not and there are plenty of pers people who leave college not having hooked up there are also people on college campuses who have really vibrant fulfilling sex lives but you know just to sort of acknowledge that there is a misalignment when it comes to the actual numbers of people who are hooking up and if they even enjoy the hooking up and then the culture that is pervasive. That is everywhere and connected to that broader culture sort of sex-negative perspective.
Brian: I understand so I think we actually talked briefly before this podcast about a book uh Sexual Citizens Right by Hirsch and Sheamus Khan. I thought you presented some pretty good findings that you heard from that book regarding sexual assault numbers and if I believe I remember correctly I think there was a little change in it throughout the years is that correct?
Shafia: There isn't there isn't the numbers pretty much aligned so if you look at for instance the numbers in sexual citizens and that they're basing that on research and if you look at other research the American Association Of Colleges And Universities recently did an updated study um and then also the National Sexual Violence Resource Center when you look at the numbers the um American Association Of Colleges And Universities have found the numbers to be you know one in four women one in eight men and two-thirds of those assaults happening within a context of partying or alcohol use and other substances so that's kind of that basic statistic that same statistic is found and cited in Sexual Citizens which is sort of this landmark very current larger study that they did at Columbia University and then The National Sexual Violence Resource Center is more inclusive of a broader sort of population and their numbers are also one in four before the age of 18 and one in six for men so one in four for women one in six for men. The American Association Of Colleges And Universities their study also too found that on some campuses the number for women was upward of 33 percent assaulted during her college experience so the other thing that's also noted and I think is important to recognize is that a disproportionate number of people who are assaulted identify within the LGBTQA plus community and a lot of that has to do so there's misogyny but there's also you know transphobia, homophobia and elements of that that are a part of this conversation an important aspect of it for sure.
Austin: Yeah I i guess my next question would be like looking at the pop culture around sex in our country I think there's expectations for women there's expectations for men for for all members when in that situation could you talk a little bit about those expectations and how real they are or what should the expectations be?
Shafia: Gender is a really big part of this conversation right and you know it's really interesting you could ask everybody who's listening right now if you sat go ahead and sit like a stereotypical male. Right so go ahead and do that I can see you guys in your screen like sit like a stereotypical male yeah I see you like spreading out you know got your man spread going on. Okay now sit like a stereotypical female even in a zoom room I see everybody contract to make themselves smaller right so you go from this like taking up space and feeling entitled to space and sort of spreading out to then going and contracting bringing making your body smaller crossing legs, sitting up straight coming to attention, you contract and make your body smaller I can do this with a room of sixth graders I don't have to explain anything they know exactly what I’m talking about I’ll do it with a room of adults I do it with college students high school students gender socialization is a really powerful thing right and so I think it's an important thing to reflect upon and the gender norms are a lot of activities and ways by which you can identify gender norms. I call it the gender paradigm because if you break down the norms within the binary of male and female you'll see if you make a list of what those expectations are they really reinforce each other and keep each other in place and I think that's also why it's so hard to break out of those or to make progress in creating shifts and changes is because a lot of it's about power right and we have that conversation around privilege when it comes to race and you know a lot of other social and political identities. But it's it reinf they reinforce each other keep them in place for each other and so it's really hard to then create a shift and because it's also all about like preserving a certain amount of privilege certain ways by which we're comfortable our society and many systems within it are structured around it and so you know it and it also is pervasive within certain contexts and sexuality is one of them, especially because we tend not to talk about it so much and how it plays a role. So traditional gender norms are typically binary right which means one opposite so male, female you've excluded a huge number of people just by you know having a binary that's so pervasive and influential in of itself like all folks who are gender-expansive non-binary conforming transgender like all those folks actually in some ways get excluded, depending and so I think that's important to recognize and then the other piece is, for instance, okay so if I said what are some male expectations stereotypical sort of gender norms from for men. What do you think the primary ones are? What would you guess?
Brian: Sexual expectations for men you'd ask? yeah
Shafia: Yeah or just in in general in relationships right like what are some we could break it down too like for bodies, male, male-bodied people.
Brian: Like strong and big and powerful.
Shafia: Strong and big and powerful right you got to have like an eight-pack okay like Alexander Scored or whatever in Tarzan. I mean that you know this sort of to be built to be tall, to be big, bigger is better in all kinds of realms and then when it comes to gender norms specific to bodies and our bodies matter when it comes to sexuality too and and females. What are some of the gender norms? Now they're sort of this like slim, thick right like slim thick large breasts, long hair, you know typically also long legs, be strong but not like bulky um you know but definitely lean like there's and these are also synonymous with being hot. Right so that's another cultural term that's attached to gender and then another thing would be for you know double standards around sex so for men it's always in charge initiate know what you're doing you know and then for women it's you're valued for your desirability and your appearance right and then also be experienced you know have enough experiences so you have some but not so much that you're labeled you're slut-shamed right and labeled like a [ __ ] kind of thing and there's the equivalent right language for boys and men too but those are some examples of things that a lot of people and that like one's supposed to be dominant one's supposed to be submissive and how those are sort of common things that come up but also tend to surface in interpersonal relationships around sexuality for sure.
Brian: I’m wondering how do you think this pressure generated from these stereotypes how do you think this everything you kind of just described right all these stereotypes you have to kind of live up to in order to be deemed like a I guess a quality sexual partner how do you think this affects uh kids I mean obviously you work with a lot of kids high school kids probably prob primarily I would I would imagine it just kind of leads to a lot more stress and anxiety right just maybe talking to the opposite sex or whoever you're interested in. Well, how do you think this affects you know the psyche of kids going through puberty and after?
Shafia: I think it gets in the way of authenticity for all of us you know and especially for young people who are trying to figure these things out and are just discovering and sort of their emerging sexuality and how it's forming and shaping so much during that time that you're you know this adolescent time. And you know for you all too and you guys are included when it comes to our brains and how neuroplastic they are during adolescence like your experiences will literally modify your brains and as male-bodied people like your brain actually won't be done you know fully formed and grown until you're in your late 20s to early 30s and for female-bodied people it's in the early 20s to mid-20s. And so you know the things you're choosing to do and how you're choosing to do them in many ways establishing those patterns of behavior you're doing that right now in a way that will determine who you are as an adult person in the future so we just want to say that first because it's important and a lot of kids don't understand or realize that that's going on right where practice is shaping your brain and your brain is going to shape your reality okay and you can't everything is practice you can choose what you practice but you don't choose the consequences so be careful what you practice because you're going to get really good at it. Is the concept that your brain is malleable and that whatever you're doing and how you're behaving and the choices you make are shaping it and who you're gonna be later on. When we give kids gender-specific cultural scripts okay which is basically what it is so if you don't have a narrative going on at home that's saying to you know in the realm of sexuality and and gender and everything else and typically we're just perpetuating this stuff generation to generation. And to be fair it's so important to acknowledge too there are people that are outside of these norms but tend to be outside of the norms
right like that there's still a majority culture that provides kids with a a script of gender expectations which is why I can say to a class of sixth graders like do this and they all know what I’m talking about and their
brains are so they're reading from the script they're acting from the script. They don't necessarily understand or know why they haven't they don't have any practice in thinking about it critically they aren't necessarily guided in self-reflection to understand what they want and what they don't want of the script and it's shaping their brains and their behaviors the longer you read from a script the higher the probability you are going to assume that character and that role later in life. That's why gender socialization that's how gender socialization happens that's why it's really powerful and because it's forming a part of our brain you know it's happening during these really formative years later on in life a lot of the time when we're caught up in a moment you know we have this other part of our brain which is the one that's still under construction for you
all and it's also why teenagers are notorious or stereotyped you know and college students for doing dumb stuff right like making bad decisions is because the part of your brain that's supposed to manage your monkey brain like your lizard brain that's about survival and pretty well developed by the time you get to high school in college and it also has to do with emotions and impulse the part that's supposed to manage it is not fully developed until what I told you. So you know if it's shape if that's the brain that's being shaped and influenced
right now that's the one that you we tend to default to in clutch moments. Does that make sense? And we don't always have the time to access what's in the cognitive sort of the cerebral cortex or the prefrontal cortex sorry of our brain and so you know it has a lot to do with then why these things show up in our relationships at this time and that you all are exploring them and beyond for sure we see it all the time in in lots of relationships of people of all ages.
Brian: Okay yeah so then you obviously so obviously you mentioned here the difference between expectations and reality and you know following the script versus you know you're feeling something inside that maybe goes counter to the script you have been prescribed by society um to follow. I guess you know what the next question is what do we what should somebody look what does a real sexual experience look like to you as opposed to you know what is considered a good sexual experience obviously I you described what a good sexual experience is supposed to feel um supposed to supposed to go like so I guess it's more so you know what what's a real sexual experience?
Shafia: Yeah I mean so any sexual experience is going to be real right like in terms of and that's an important aspect of empathy which is fundamental to this conversation and your capacity to actually have real sexual experiences that are healthy is that like we honor people's experience as their truth right like that's an empathic way to talk about sexuality and to think about it. If we're talking about like the culture the greater culture's narrative of what good sex is and what young people through media through other social institutions that create context in which we understand ourselves and our sexuality and it develops. When we talk about that the narrative tends to be really performative like I said before right like it's a performance it's something that you do where you're acquiring experience right you're you want to be acknowledged for being desirable or acknowledged for you know conquest or achieving a certain amount of skill and or experience and i'm gonna put that in quotes and so that actually is really one-sided if you're talking about a performance like think of the baseball analogy are you familiar with that when it comes to talking about sex?
Brian: Right like I haven't heard that one yet no.
Shafia: You haven't okay so I’m dating myself so that's a generational thing, but we used to well I guess it depends on which one we're referring to well so the baseball analogy of like if you get to first
oh yeah yes yes home run okay yeah like right like so when we use that's a good analogy as an example of our cultural sort of narrative when it comes to sex right so you have two teams, they're in competition with each other when you have two teams in competition with each other there's a winner there's a loser okay Debbie Rothman and Alver Nachio they talk about this they're sex educators if you're there's a progression that
you have to go from first to second to third to home, right and then it's about who's at bat and there's all kinds of things around like dugouts and the outfield and people who are swing hitters you know who play for both teams whatever like there's so much wrapped up n that analogy but typically it's this there's like a winner there's a loser it's a competition it's very linear in terms of how you and it's about scoring? Right when it comes to and alvaro knock you're talking about this a better metaphor would be ordering pizza together that's more consensual right because when you want you're hungry you want to satisfy a need you're going to engage in a conversation even if you've been having with pizza with someone for a really long time should we get the usual do we want to do something else what do you like on your pizza, are you feeling like pepperoni should we go halfsies right like we need a more inclusive model metaphor language to negotiate sexual experiences because we have this orientation to it as if it's a performance that it's all about this one person and their experience and someone's doing something to someone else versus a shared and felt experience that we do together when it comes to so the counter narrative for me and what I teach in my classes because I never want kids to feel like one they have to have experiential context to participate in my class in a meaningful way and two everybody's going to have an individual sense of what good sex means to them
and there are certain concepts values and guidelines that can help us understand what that should look sound and feel like. Okay so if I were to ask you to you know i'm I’m gonna assume you've both had and we've talked right like you've both had a quality conversation in your lives right like a conversation with someone where you're totally vibing and it's like you have tunnel vision time seems to be irrelevant and sort of goes to the wayside and it's really exciting and passionate you're that you know, it's exciting or passionate so how you're connecting with someone else so if I were to ask you like what would you notice or see if you were
witness to a conversation that was like that how would you describe it physically like what would you identify?
Brian: I would probably a big one would be eye contact I think sustained eye contact throughout the conversation. And possibly I would like leaning in at least one party leaning in probably uh maybe like close in proximity so it's it may be a feeling of comfortability then that might be what's being represented there.
Austin: Yeah I would say like body language like they're open they're smiling like they're enjoying it you can just tell they're both kind of on the same page.
Shafia: Yeah for sure and there's probably a give and take is anybody on their phone? Is anybody like you know talking to other friends or buddies who are you know 50 yards in the distance like wait for me I’m on my way ? no right they're right there there's presents and there's sustained eye contact you mentioned seeing joy smiles maybe in their faces or if it's a more serious conversation what might you see care concern something like that right the leaning in the body language is really important you talked about open body language right and depending on the context because that's everything in in relationships it might be a little leaning in and my guess is you also see active listening right so maybe some head nodding that people are going back and forth with the conversation too it's pretty equal okay now you started to talk about, Brian like what the embodied experience of that would be the emotional embodied experience you said you would feel comfortable what allows for comfort like what cultivates comfort.
Brian: I'd say trust is probably yeah trust for each other a genuine job.
Shafia: Yeah exactly there's a fundamental level of trust right that someone is not going to exploit what you say they're not going to go trash talk you feel a certain level of trust and that's going to be different for everyone right depending on how much we reveal that's true of all our conversations that that you're gonna be somewhat safe in this conversation okay what other emotions might be happening inside while this is going on trust safety, what else which means you're like probably honest right yeah like.
Austin: You're also like eager to find out like more about this person if you don't know much about them more.
Shafia: Yeah so curiosity right so you're probably feeling curious um it's probably kind of exciting right like in an appropriate way depending on what the the content of what you're talking about is your passion may be stoked in some way and you know before we talked about honest on safety and trust which is typically indicative that there's like honesty present right like that you're trusting that this person is being honest with you also and it feels really genuine for sure. So you're feeling safe you're feeling like you can trust the situation what if it got awkward what do you think would happen because life gets awkward?
Austin: You don't like laugh it off almost and just like kind of move on.
Shafia: Yeah acknowledge maybe laugh about it or just be like oh that was awkward you know and move beyond it. Okay what's the feeling you're left with afterwards? What's the feeling you're left with afterwards?
Brian: I would say just I guess satisfaction even if it's maybe even if it's not a great conversation but it was still engaging like if it was about something maybe not so happy I think it would still be a sense of satisfaction and like completeness that there was a sincere moment shared between two individuals.
Shafia: Right on yeah okay good anything else?
Austin: I would just be like you know what am a seeing you again [Laughter]
Shafia: When can we talk again yeah exactly what if it was someone on a train ride or on the airplane ride for like an hour or two, you live in totally different states and whatever else and then you're like okay I guess we're never going to see each other again when you look back on that experience what would the feeling be?
Austin: I would just have like a appreciation and like hey like I had this awesome conversation like I feel like it doesn't happen much nowadays with all the iPhone stuff and like that so yeah yeah.
Shafia: Yeah, for sure and then the other part of it is if you were talking about something that was really of interest to you what might you feel afterwards and you there was curiosity, you were interested in each other what might the byproduct of that be?
Austin: That you felt like you grew as a as a person almost like you learned something and you developed your ideas further by listening to the other person.
Shafia: Yeah and so those are the guidelines we could probably all recognize that those are qualities of a good conversation but they're going to feel different you know somewhat individual and mean different things to different people whether it's the person on the airplane right like some people are totally open to having rando conversations on an airplane with someone next to them in a way that you're really vibing and get into it if that's the energy that you know you share. Other people are a little more reserved it all depends on your social style right for sure too and your personality and how open you are given different contexts and situations so that's what allows for the individuality in this but sex is a dialogue, it's an expression and so anybody who's had a quality conversation knows what a good sexual experience should actually look sound and feel like even if it's just for the 45-minute you know plane ride or the 20-minute train ride or whatever it is everything you extract that you described to me was a felt experience there was nothing about a performance as a part of that did you pick up on that like there was nothing performative about what you described to me so quality good sexual experiences are a felt experience much like a conversation it's one of the ultimate forms of expression and so you don't actually have to have had that good sex to understand in an empathetic way right where you can connect it's not exactly the same thing but it's similar right like what those feelings would look sound and feel like when two people are connecting authentically even if it's just for physical gratification.
Austin: My last question would be you know from your experience and having gone to Skidmore obviously things have changed a little bit since you attended do you have any tips or advice for us the students of Skidmore on what we can do to improve the sexual culture around campus.
Shafia: I here's the thing I think we can all learn from all kinds of types of relationships personally I think something to consider is reclaiming relationships and to change this narrative make it cool to actually have that sex be a felt experience versus a performance. Like that's what's going to shift the culture is if you actually make it cool to connect with someone in an authentic way to communicate about what you're sharing and experiencing together even if it's just within the context of a hook up or friends with benefits. I also think it would be in people's best interest if you're ready for that level of intimacy to reclaim relationships like defined established relationships you all have been given or whether you know it or not you have many developmental tasks on your docket right now and some of them would be met in the most healthy and effective way by being in a relationship and you're actually engaging in practice right now for that big relationship okay and I want to acknowledge there's polyamorous folks too but like your relationships in the future if I went through and we did some exercise where I asked you to identify how you wanted to characterize them no matter who I talked to no matter what age they are, the values that come up are fun, communicative, trustworthy, honest, loyal dependable all those things and my question then for young people or college students is like well how are you going to get there because you're not that far out from it. Like how are you going to get there and we learn a lot from being in relationship with each other and some people may say well why would I want to do that if it isn't going to be the person that I want to you know really enjoy a defined committed relationship with and I would say real time joy like when you leave college I still have friends from college we don't live on the same coasts but that didn't keep me from connecting with them in a meaningful way and my relationship with them whether I’ve you know saw them last year or haven't seen them in 20 years totally contributed to who I am as a person now. Like my housemates who I lived with I lived with a couple of them at Skidmore for all four years and you know we haven't seen each other for a really long time and we may not but right like the experiences we had the things we shared, the learning about life that we you know connected on together like that will never go away so I think a lot of times you all are actually missing out on a whole lot about of learning about yourself about someone else like the discovery of a relationship is amazing and that's part of what makes it special but the popular culture is telling you should know everything before you get to it the thing is long lasting relationships if we knew everything about each other and there was no discovery along the way they wouldn't last so you know I’d say reclaim relationships redefine vulnerability as strength not weakness I challenge any of you to think of a moment of bravery that didn't require a moment of vulnerability first an act of bravery that didn't require a moment of vulnerability first I mean I still can't think of one talk to hundreds of people who can't think of one right like and vulnerability being an emotional and or physical risk where you don't know what the outcome will be and to really think about the role that partying plays in your life and what you're going for and how sex and partying intersect and how they don't and to remember that whenever we party in any for anything and this goes for all people you know the more we consume the more we diminish our judgment our capacity to judge to make good judgment and that's true of all people right so to keep that in mind and if you are someone who needs to drink or be drunk to have a sexual experience that the question is for you then for what reason what is it that you need to educate yourself on and to work on and to think about because to have to because healthy sex actually I I you know my first question when people say like I want to you know I want to have drug sex or whatever is kind of like well why would you like what it what is that about because what we know neurologically in terms of our feelings and our ability to in our capacity to experience pleasure like you actually diminish that when you party and you drink alcohol and things like that. So you in it for the pleasurable felt experience or are you in it for the performance you know like is it just to get off like just understand and know your motivations and be real about the choices you're making and they don't have to be perfect and they don't have to align with everything you're going for all the time but get clear on what your integrity is about get clear on what you value and what you're going for get clear on what you aspire to in your relationships and how you connect with other people and how you show up in the world and you know integrity is about making sure your insides and what you value align with your outsides and how you act and how you move in the world like how can you get those to align more solidly especially within the realm of sexuality. I mean it's a lot it's a tall order yeah but we're the only ones who can do it and half the time when I talk to everyone everybody thinks well you know no one else feels like I do and everyone's longing for connection and for something real you know and that awesome felt experience but they don't think anyone else is when everyone else is so you know as much as you can bring the walls down and push up against the sort of more negative narrative and live a more positive one I think it'll serve it'll serve you and that's a good question with everything yeah does it serve you like what are you going for and does it serve you.
Brian: Yeah I think that was that was great I really appreciated that is there anything I guess in closing is there any resources you'd like to share just in terms of educating or other than your own your own article your own all your books and your articles I mean if you'd like to plug those too go for it we're definitely gonna show that in our when we post this we'll include that in the description but is there anything else that you would recommend to people.
Shafia: Yeah for sure I mean there's some really great sex positive resources out there to educate yourselves on all of this sort of stuff you just have to find it. Scarleteen, s-c-a-r-l-e-t-e-e-n, Scarleteen.com is a great resource and written by young people for young people that are really sex positive and incredibly inclusive of all kinds of identities and genders and I love Scarleteen Sex, Etc. is another good one. Go Ask Alice at a Columbia University, Rutgers I think it’s sex 101 is that what that's what they call it but if you just you know google sex ed Rutgers university they have a really good one planned parenthood always has awesome sort of videos and information about sexual health having to do with like STI’s and unintended pregnancy and consent and sort of those fundamental things and just to put a plug in like consent is so important right like it's essential it protects the fundamentals of human dignity like it's so it’s the foundation of it all but it's the floor not the ceiling it's a really low bar for a positive pleasurable experience so I also encourage people to aspire beyond consent to ethical good quality sexual experiences and then there's books, there's lots of books out there but I find most people when they're looking for sex ed info are going to go to the web for sure but those are the ones that I would recommend.
Austin: Great Brian and I usually like to end the show with a fun game or question so our question to you is if you could share your favorite skin more memory.
Shafia: Oh my favorite skin are you taking me back I don't know that I want to do that and go through the like the archives of memories that exist favorite Skidmore memory well and there are so many I have to say we used to is trotteria still there trots?
Brian: I don't I haven't heard of no.
Shafia: Or not like nine people have is that still there?
Brian: I think so down like downtown area?
Shafia: Yeah I mean what so I have a lot so I used to manage men's lacrosse too and you know there were some lacrosse games that were really awesome for sure you know I think about all the different facets of my Skidmore life but I am going to say what we used to do was there was this place called Trots and on Thursday nights I forget what night it was I think it was they would have funk night or something like that and we would all just go dance I mean it was so much fun they had some picture special or something like that and we would all you know walk into town down Broadway um and dance for hours and it was so much fun for sure those were my highlights. I don't know that I want to incriminate myself though and reveal more explicit descriptions of what we were up to but when I think back on it like those nights downtown I think it was Thursday night in particular where we would all there was you know we like we had our we had our social circle in Penfield and it was freshman year and that you know lasted through senior year those friendships but like as we were all freshmen together we'd all hang out together because no one else wanted to hang out with us and you know we'd have to walk into town and that you didn't need an id or anything to get in really and so it was a different time right we’d all go dance for hours have an amazing time and then go for to pope's pizza for a slice or to go to the pizza bagel pizza bagel store and ultimately there'd be like some how many pizza bagels can you eat cupcakes and we'd go have breakfast at that diner that's open 24 hours come is it confidence yeah don't have breakfast there 24 anymore they probably I think they cut it dot like cut it down by two hours it might be like open at three now yeah and then we'd go have breakfast at Compton’s and then we'd all walk home and crash and I loved those that was fun. That was like college to me you know outside of the same educational like academic experience I had for sure.
Brian: Yeah, awesome well we just wanted to thank you again for being on the podcast and sharing all that information with us we really appreciate it.
Shafia: My pleasure thanks for having me and you know if anybody listens who has questions about any of this stuff you can contact me through my website and I will respond to you can email me and I have former students in your student body as well and you know they're actually pretty well educated and could be good resources too for sure, but people are more than welcome to contact me too with specific questions if they want resources or just answers about anything in particular.
Brian: Great it will be we'll be sure to uh include all of that in our post of this podcast too all that information you provided at the end for resources and then your own website your own work, so it'll all be there it's very helpful. Austin anything else?
Austin: No, I just want to say you know thank you so much for coming on we really appreciate you taking the time.
Listen to the original recording HERE.